Ban and Unban – Most Disputed Forbidden List Takes

To ban or unban, that is the question. Imperial Order, Mystic Mine, Maxx C – the list goes on. It seems you’re either a “hard yes” or “hard no” and there’s no in-between. Today I’m going to give you MY take after examining arguments from both sides.


Ban Imperial Order?

.

Boy, is this a hot topic as of late. I would not have thought that the community will be so divided as to whether we should ban Imperial Order. But here we are.

On one hand, half of the players want it to stay. There is a lot of backrow removals available to us in the current day. MST, Twin Twisters, Cosmic Cyclone. In addition to that we also have Evenly Matched, Red Reboot, Pankratops, and if you wanna get weird – Typhoon. Another argument you’d usually hear is that “It’s at one anyways!” making it ideally difficult to open.

Moving on to the counter-arguments from the ban side. Yes, there are plenty of outs – but you need to draw them in your first 6, otherwise, you just lose. You can’t even dig for outs with cards like Pot of Desires or Pot of Prosperity! Speaking of Prosperity, its consistency absolutely cannot be taken for granted. A lot of midrange and combo decks summon, search and dump from the deck during their turn. This allows the deck to be thinned BEFORE you even activate Prosperity, astronomically increasing the odds of hitting the order.

Me? Well… I lean towards the ban. I despise all the esssentially ‘git gud’ arguments. This card literally (1) shuts down an entire card type while (2) having a window wherein if you don’t have the out, you just lose. Sound familiar? Well, that would be because of True King of All Calamities! You NEED to have the out the moment it activates, and it locks down an entire card type. I know it also practically kills your battle phase, but the similarity is absolutely uncanny.


Ban Mystic Mine?

Mystic Mine has irked thousands of players through the years. We tread this ban question carefully.

Mystic Mine, unlike Imperial Order, has not necessarily been ever-present in top meta decks. That’s an argument to keep it, right off the bat. It’s also a little less restrictive in how to out it. Heck, it even outs itself when you reach the end phase while having the same number of monsters on each field! Lastly, people would argue that it… promotes good deckbuilding and technical play.

All that being said, there’s still a lot of reasons to ban (and hate) this card. Yes, to a certain degree, it DOES promote some semblance of creativity in deck building. But why is that so? The reason is that this card is ridiculously oppressive! If you so happen to use up all your negates and your opponent slaps this on the board – you might have just lost. They can just hold it ’til you deck out – or they have enough resources to OTK you. It again locks an entire card type AND game mechanic – attacking. You can’t even poke with this on the board and that’s probably what annoys people the most.

Prank-Kids, Sty strikers – a little “skillful” with Mine, right? The decks that revolve around mine are the exceptionally degenerate ones. You don’t get to play. Ah yes, play it into Solemn Judgment, Dark Bribe, and… Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell. Mine is unsearchable and through a big tournament, their chances of cheesing wins drop exponentially. That being said, a card as degenerate as this should NOT exist.

Will TCG ban Mine following the OCG? We’ll see.


Unban Maxx “C”?

Every banlist we ask this question, tweet the hashtag – #FreetheC. But should we really?

Some people who want it out claim that it stops combo decks. Keeps those decks in check, as they would say. “OCG has it at three and they’re fine.” “Where does it say end your turn in the card text?” These are just some of the things that people argue to be the points with which Maxx “C” could be brought back.

Now let’s look at why the other people think it SHOULDN’T come back.

OCG has it at three, BUT their format is extremely different. Almost all of the topping decks have a certain starting template that they follow. A set of cards like Maxx “C”, Ash, Crossout, and Called By are always present. Any card that heavily warps the entire format to HAVE to play around a certain card in order to not lose to it is ban-worthy.

Yes, it does keep combo decks in check, but you do realize that they play the card, too, right? They could end on either an unbreakable board, OR a mediocre board plus a C in hand, and the result would be the same. “Build to play around it.” Some decks can’t even afford to do basic plays without giving opponents a ridiculous advantage! Take Salamangreat for instance. You end on a Sunlight Wolf and a set trap and that’s what, 3 to 4 draws? Even a control deck like Sky Striker will give 2 or more cards in order to do anything, especially when going second.

We don’t even have Crossout, and CBTG is at 1. Let’s not act like Maxx “C” should come back. (EDIT: It literally just got announced LOL. Okay that gives it a better chance to come back yikes)


Unban Colossus?

Was the ban warranted? Yes. 100%. Should it come back today? That’s absolutely debatable, and it’s been heated lately.

Unban

Thunder Dragon Colossus creates a sphere of bias that leans its huge fanbase toward letting the card go. Colossus prevents searching. However, it doesn’t restrict draws! That’s pretty cool. In addition to that, people also argue that there’s a gajillion outs to the card anyways. Impermanence, Droplet, Chalice, Dark Ruler No More, yada yada. Lastly, an extra deck floodgate monster also exists today, in the form of Shenshen.

Ban

Those are most of the arguments for the release. Now consider the counters. Searching is still an entire game mechanic being locked out. If Colossus was the only monster on the board, sure that’s fine! However, it’s not reaching to expect a couple (or more) negates to be alongside it. That also factors in with the “there’s a lot of outs anyways!”. I mean if that’s our logic, let’s unban everything in the forbidden list, since they all have counterplays, right? With regards to Shenshen – yes it’s a floodgate. BUT, the key thing is that Shenshen does NOT have its own protection by battle / card effect. Could Shen become problematic in the future? SURE! Stuff like Xiangjian easily puts a negate alongside it with the right hands. But that’s a story for another day.

Verdict

This one’s a little bit tough. I despise cards that say “You CANNOT.” Although Colossus at ONE will probably not be a HUGE problem. However, I’m leaning towards keeping it in the list. By a sliver! Locking searching will never be powercrept as it’s a mechanic.

Nemeses Corridor isn’t as splashable as some people think. BUT I think that’s just another point to keep it from coming back. Will I use it in my Virtual World deck if it comes back? Why yes! Who wouldn’t want to end on Shenshen Chuche and Colossus? Do I want him back, though? Probably not. Not right now.


Unban Harp Horror

#UnbanHarp

Colossus one was long so let’s keep this short. Let’s not kid ourselves, what will Orcust Harp Horror do? Splash Harp and other bricks to get a negate? Are people really going to play that over Fusion Destiny or the Brave engine?

Free my boy Harp.

16
Avatar

Yugi Papi

KDE Judge. Virtual World enthusiast. Orcustrated Duelist. Dark Magician collector that ventured into the competitive scene using Orcusts prior to it being meta! Currently using several other decks and consistently exploring as the meta develops.


57 thoughts on “Ban and Unban – Most Disputed Forbidden List Takes


  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 2:59 pm

    1

    2

    I just want Battlin’ Boxer Veil to not be limited anymore

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 3:08 pm

    3

    2

    >

    its not limited. it never was

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 3:27 pm

    0

    1

    Colossus is fine at 1 (should’ve always been at 1)

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    1

    1

    Personally I think even putting mystic mine at 1 wouldn’t even fix it’s problem because of how easy it is to search it out, (Terraforming, set rotation, metaverse, to name a few). But I’m on the fence on whether or not it should be banned because it does take a little skill to use

    On one hand I agree that Imperial order is a really easy shut down for almost no cost, however it is already limited to 1, and it is a continuous trap, meaning it can’t be searched out by trap trick. As well as the fact that almost everyone runs some kind of extra deck, backrow removal which is really easy to go into, (Such as tornado dragon or knightmare phoenix) I think imperial order is okay to keep at one, the only deck I really see actively run it that does irk me are traptrix but then again, I like decks who are built around trap cards so that’s my own personal opinion.

    Maxx C can change the entire meta as a whole if it is unbanned, as we have seen with the OCG, it is quite possibly singularly, the most powerful card in the game, but personally I like having two game types that have a completely different meta that is entirely revolved around Maxx C’s banned status, and it’s unlimited status, so I say keep it unbanned for the OCG, but keep it banned for the TCG

    I am conflicted on Colossus, the problem with it is that it is just too easy to bring out. I want to preface this by saying, if Instant Fusion ever gets banned, I think they can and should take colossus off of the banned list immediately, instant fusion to Kaminari Attack just made Colossus a really easy floodgate to go into. I think Colossus could be returned if they either gave it an errata to add a cost to the negate, (although the whole gimmick of thunder dragons is making costs into benefits so that might not work out to well) or they ban instant fusion or take away it’s alternate summoning condition

    And finally, I think Harp Horror should still be banned, the orcust engine (harp horror) would still be way too good with today’s meta, and I would argue even better with Red Eyes dark dragoon now being in the game, both monsters involved in the dark dragoon turbo are both dark monsters, which means they work excellent with Harp as they are not restricted by the summoning restriction, and the last thing that Orcusts need is an easy Extra deck negate, Orcust Harp Horror was good when it was banned, and it is now even better. However, if they made an errata to Harp Horror, restricting the summoning to only DARK “Machine” monsters or “Orcust” monsters for the rest of the turn, I think it could even be put to unlimited.

    Well that was my addition to the discussion, I hope you all enjoy, and I would love to hear everyone else’s opinion

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    1

    1

    >

    Don’t forget Ready Fusion can also summon Kaminari Attack, and it’s currently at 3

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 5:09 pm

    1

    1

    I completely forgot about ready fusion, yeah with that at 3 especially, I don’t think Colossus can be released from the ban list soon if at all

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 9:03 pm

    0

    1

    I think every card that takes away the player’s ability to win should be banned. This game should provide skill that is more determinant to victory than power of cards, even more if they take away a whole mechanic to be used as is the case of Imperial Order and Mystic Mine.
    I think there are sensible ways to make the game healthy without having to return the Maxx C to 3 because with a good banlist everything can be resolved.
    Colossus is like Winda, it’s not just because there are outs for the card that it’s healthy, if the deck played in the pure version, it’s ok because there’s Dark Law in HERO (1000 times better than Shenshen) and it doesn’t cause a problem, but how these decks are splashable in many different engines these Floodgates deserve to be banned.
    Harp Horror is one of the most problematic cards in the banlist: monsters with special summon effect from the deck without restricting the archetype (becoming restricted in dark can’t even be called restriction) because you can mix several engines that shouldn’t be played in set to normally make ftk boards. In pure orcust it wouldn’t be a problem but it will be splashable in several other engines for sure, if this will become a problem probably not but also probably in the future, remember that it’s not just about bringing in cards from the banlist only because today Harp Horror will not be a problem at the 2019 level with knightmare mermaid in the game but new collections will be released and it could be a big problem again.

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 9:53 pm

    1

    1

    Exactly, I think Harp Horror’s summoning restriction for the rest of the turn is way too general, Dark monsters are the most plentiful attribute of monsters in the game. It should be just restricted to Dark Machines or just Orcust monsters, splashable cards are just always going to be a problem if they’re better outside of their pure archetype

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 10:22 pm

    0

    1

    Easiest way to errata Colossus would be to just make it so it requires two Thunder Dragon monsters as materials, rather than being allowed a generic Thunder monster like Kaminari Attack.

  • Avatar
    September 16, 2021 at 11:29 pm

    2

    1

    You can’t even use Kaminari Attack for Colossus if you summon it as a link 1 (which is pretty much the only way it’s ever been summoned), Kaminari just makes it easier to get a Titan as backup for your 2 Colossi, so the errata you proposed really wouldn’t do anything at all.

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 12:10 am

    4

    2

    This discussion is extremely wholesome and I love y’all for it :D

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 10:29 am

    0

    1

    Regarding Imperial Order:

    the card should go to 0 or to 3, in my opinion. At just one copy, it allows for random victories if you draw it, what is a bad thing for a competitive game. It should be consistent or not be at all. The second option is my favored one. The same goes for Skill Drain

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 1:05 pm

    0

    1

    Skill Drain sounds OP, so it should be banned. Who’s with me?

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 2:23 pm

    2

    1

    >

    no one plays skill drain

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 2:56 pm

    0

    1

    Imperial Order Its fine at one since you can get rid of it and its not an easy draw
    Mystic Mine Its all or nothing since its easy to search
    Maxx C NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    Colossus Its good at 1 its only bad at 3
    Harp Horror Free my baby

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:03 pm

    0

    2

    Why keep Maxx C unbanned? It’s just a 2000 atk and 0 Def level 4 vanilla monster.

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:04 pm

    2

    1

    >

    you are thinking of shiny black c, not maxx c

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:45 pm

    0

    1

    >

    Because Maxx C is an hand trap that lets you draw a card every time your opponent special summons a monster

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:46 pm

    0

    1

    Oh. My bad. Also, why isn’t Enemy Controller banned?

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:48 pm

    2

    2

    >

    because its bad. its been bad for like, 10 years

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:52 pm

    0

    1

    Konami will just errata it so you have to pay 500 Lp instead of 1000 and make it a 1 of.

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:54 pm

    0

    2

    >

    enemy controller is at 3 and has been for years and has no life point cost, and lp costs as low as 500 or 1000 are irrelevant anyway

    its effects are bad

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 3:59 pm

    0

    1

    Enemy Controller does have a life point cost, and konami will just make a retrain with an extra downside for the player who activated it.

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 4:01 pm

    0

    2

    >

    downsides go to good cards. enemy controller is a bad card. battle position changing is terrible. the stealing effect is done better by other existing cards.

    and read the card. it clearly has no life point cost. if you mean mind control, that card is bad too.

    https://db.ygoprodeck.com/banlist/?list=TCG Look at this. this is the banlist right now.

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 4:03 pm

    0

    1

    I thought the tcg and ocg effects matched that of the anime effects

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 4:04 pm

    2

    2

    >

    no. most cards in the game don’t match with the anime effects. the game in the anime has a different tempo, lp count, and strength of decks, so cards from the anime are made either stronger or weaker by the real game. The real game has way more cards than the anime too

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 4:08 pm

    0

    1

    The only card that i’m happy that had it’s ability changed in the tcg and ocg is Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon.

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 4:11 pm

    0

    1

    >

    the tcg and ocg have the same card effects, but different banlists. the irl game and the anime rarely share card effects

    odd eyes pend dragons effect is one of the times where the effect is the same in the anime

  • Avatar
    September 17, 2021 at 5:52 pm

    0

    1

    example

  • Avatar
    September 18, 2021 at 1:15 am

    0

    1

    I realllyyyy hope colossus comes off the Banlist man, my guy has been imprisoned for far too long

  • Avatar
    September 18, 2021 at 12:59 pm

    1

    1

    Don’t get me wrong, thundra and colossus are cool and all, but Colossus is a mistake of a card. It’s so easy to summon, protects itself, and prevents the opponent from searching. Putting that together makes it really good, and with the amount of access modern decks have to the Extra Deck I don’t think that it wll be coming back anytime soon, nor that it should.

  • Avatar
    September 18, 2021 at 2:42 pm

    0

    1

    >

    Monster Reborn has always been the same in the anime and original

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    0

    1

    Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon‘s anime effect is “If this card battles a level 5 or above monster; battle damage your opponent takes is doubled.”

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 3:30 pm

    0

    1

    >

    so they made odd eyes better

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 6:09 pm

    0

    1

    Exactly. Also, why did they errata Destiny HERO – Disk Commander? It would make for a great suicide deck piece.

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    0

    1

    it was too good back in the day

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    0

    1

    A suicide deck-out deck is where Destiny HERO – Disk Commander shines. Besides, aren’t there other ways to build an infinite draw deck?

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 7:38 pm

    0

    1

    it doesnt shine in suicide decks. it shines in deep draw and loop decks.

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    0

    1

    The kind of suicide deck I was talking about was a deck-out suicide deck.

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    0

    1

    >

    and decks that make you lose are bad. decks where you use a powerful draw card like disk commander was drew stuff that would actually win them a game.

  • Avatar
    September 20, 2021 at 10:17 pm

    0

    1

    In my opinion unbanning Maxx “C” is the most reddit small brain thing that could come out of a Yugioh player’s mouth. Just saying “It stops combo decks!” means very little because you could say the same thing about Mystic Mine, or Imperial Order. or 3 Effect Veilor, or Imperm, or Ash, or whatever slow down/flood gate it out there.

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 12:38 am

    0

    1

    Who would win? Maxx “C” or six samurai bois

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 11:55 am

    0

    1

    Maxx “C”

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 12:06 pm

    0

    1

    >

    I don’t think you understand, six samurai has infinite summoning loop, therefore if you use maxx “C” you’ll deck out and lose

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 12:56 pm

    0

    1

    Six sam cause maxx c is banned

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 12:59 pm

    0

    1

    >

    draw nibiru

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 1:00 pm

    0

    1

    >
    counter with crossout

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 2:10 pm

    0

    1

    Dragoon omni-negates

  • Avatar
    September 21, 2021 at 11:09 pm

    0

    1

    >

    Then the six gateway can refresh it

  • Avatar
    September 22, 2021 at 12:18 am

    0

    1

    what ever make mine kids deck better right? haha even in mine day money make suire you win. that order? there more spell canceling card out there that was the most fair one out of them in this time of dealing.

  • Avatar
    September 23, 2021 at 5:44 pm

    0

    0

    >

    You can’t really refresh the Gateway loop when the only monster you control is a nibiru token. Pretty much the only way to keep going is to search Chamberlain of the Six Samurai and go into Link Spider with the token, but that would require you to actually play Chamberlain and Link Spider in your deck exclusively for this specific scenario.

  • Avatar
    September 23, 2021 at 6:28 pm

    0

    0

    AMOGUS

To post a comment, please login or register a new account.